Ask anyone who's spent a few years in tech, and they'll probably tell you a version of the same story: long but exhilarating days, the chance to stand out and climb ranks fast, and of course, great pay. But none of those details really get into the complex experiences of being a woman—and a mom—at one of the "I would kill to work there" companies that most of us use daily.

That's where Shirin Saleem comes in. As the Senior Manager for Technical Programs at Alexa at Amazon, Saleem knows the tech world from the inside out—and she's not afraid to push for change when she believes it's necessary. She's also got more than a few words of advice for any woman interested in pursuing a career in tech or at Amazon—all gleaned from her first-hand experiences. Here's how she got a seat at the table at one of the world's most lucrative companies.  

I spent a majority of my life in India—I was born in the Persian Gulf, in Kuwait, but within the cultural theme of being Indian, with our family, friends, etc. being Indian, I went to an Indian school there and then moved back [to India] during the Gulf War, when I was 8. I lived there until I was 21, before I moved [to America].

Growing up, there was a lot of emphasis on academics—more than you have over here. I was always the “nerd,” focusing on math and making sure I got good grades. My father had a computer science degree from the U.S., which, at that point, was not very common. I always looked up to him and wanted to be exactly what he was. I knew I wanted to be an engineer when I was growing up, and that’s what I ended up being.

When I started out my career, what brought me into this [tech] space was a project I did in undergrad on speech recognition. It was a little project at the time, where I built a small digit speech recognizer. Once I got out of my undergraduate [program], I applied for a master's at Carnegie Mellon. My mentor there was my advisor. I worked for her for a couple of years as a research assistant—she was great at giving me career advice, advice about what I should be doing in terms of projects then and later, what was best suited to my interests.

On What Drew Her to Amazon

It was the role that led me to Amazon. I joined Amazon when Alexa hadn’t launched, when the Echo product hadn’t launched. When I interviewed, I didn’t know exactly what it was that I would be working on, but I knew what the role of a technical program manager would be and that I would be working on speech recognition.

I had eight years of experience [at that point], so I had a pretty good sense of where my strengths were and where I wanted to grow. When this position came up and was described—"a bridge between research and production, you need to have excellent interpersonal skills, you need to look at strategic impact, big picture, and connect the dots"—I thought, “That relates to my strengths really well.” I personally think I wasn't wrong because I have loved the job and thrived in it ever since I made the switch. I haven't lost the connection to speech science, either. I work in the machine learning group, and I bring a lot of value because of my background.

On What She Looks For When She's Hiring

In a hiring situation, Amazon typically has a predefined set of leadership principles, which is a brilliant strategy for finding the right candidate for the job. Of course, every manager has their own set of biases.

I first look for someone who is technically sound. I believe that without that, you won’t succeed in the kind of role I’m hiring for. On the personal side, I want someone who’s got a good sense of ownership and can deal with challenges in the face of ambiguity. That could be ambiguity in ownership—where it’s not really clear whether you need to do something or if someone else should—or, it could be ambiguity in the project itself. I look for someone who is able to break problems down into smaller pieces, solve things one at a time, and then ask the right questions to get past the uncertainty and move forward. I would say ownership, technical skills, and dealing with ambiguity are the top three things I look for.

On Management Mistakes

In the beginning, I was over-cautious with hiring to the extent that it was hard for me to find anyone because I set my own internal bar too high. I learned to work around that, and I realized that I need to make some compromises—you know, I can’t check off everything on the list.

One thing I’ve learned going along is that you have to take a balanced view when you bring people in and when you manage them. Different people have different strengths and different weaknesses. And as a manager, you have to work around that and work with them on that.

I enjoy mentoring people. There is a teaching streak in me, I think. I like sitting down, explaining, bringing my background to the table, my experience, and explaining how things work—the architecture of the systems, how to navigate the organization in terms of program management. I've found it quite fulfilling to be a manager and a mentor.

On Being A Woman Of Color In Tech

I do not let that perspective [of being an "outsider"] stand in the way of anything. Usually, I’m telling people in the room what to do or asking them questions. I’m confident about myself, and what I say. And that’s not something anyone can take away from me, male or female.

Another example: I work, I have two young children, so I have to cut-off at a certain point in the day. I’m not ashamed of that, I don’t hide that, I don’t apologize for it. I tell people what I have to do—I have to go home at this time to pick up my kids from school—so you can work around my schedule. And what I have to show for that, on the other side, is the quality of my work and where I am. So I get past it. I don’t let it stand in the way of anything.

On Balancing Work and Motherhood

Would I like to do more on both sides? Absolutely. Sometimes I wish I could work longer hours, or take that one last meeting to close out a topic before I have to go home. And when I’m home, I’m wishing, “Oh, perhaps I didn’t have to send my daughter to that extra two hours of daycare, if I had picked her up a little earlier maybe we could have done this and that together.”

I think it’s hard, but it’s possible to strike a balance. It depends on what you want and what you think is satisfying. For me personally, I feel like if I didn’t work, or if I short-changed myself in my career, I would be setting a bad example for my two girls. I want them to grow up and be strong, professional career women, and if I don’t set the example, then where will they be?

On Her Daughters' Careers

I just want them to be happy. I want them to do what they want. I think that’s the most important thing. I don't want to steer them in any specific direction, you know, for the love of math or academics or anything in that dimension. I want them to pick up a career where they enjoy what they’re doing—otherwise, I don’t believe that you'll succeed. I want them to be confident, to be bold. I don’t want anything or anyone to slow them down. I expect them to grow up to be confident workers, doing exactly what they want.

On What's Next

I have taken up some pretty big projects, over the last six to nine months having to do with making Alexa a lot bigger than it is right now, in terms of the platform, in terms of capabilities...I definitely want to use that opportunity not just to develop the product—it’s a very complex process with a lot of technical challenges. As I see myself navigating through that, I see myself also growing professionally, getting to the next level in my career, building more of a multi-functional team than I have right now. So that’s what I’m looking for, myself.

And my team, as well, I would expect that they stay with me on that same path.